Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers

by: AB

If there ever were a case for eBay and other platforms to leverage their weight on this issue to lawmakers, its this.  Similar to right to repair, the right to resell is critical to true ownership of one's property.  This right must be defended.  Interestingly, eBay's entire business depends on protecting both if these.

by: None Such

Thank you for this great piece of reporting and your investigation, Ina.   While selling counterfeit goods is wrong, it is unfortunate that what seems to be one or more law firms without a moral compass having sold Brands on an approach that is underhanded.  Much better to sue the US Government for failing to stop counterfeit goods from entering the U.S. in the first place.  But that would require some serious legal work and expense that Brands aren’t willing to make.  

by: Gumball

I often sell items that are brand names that I buy at sales and thrift shops, but they are not high-ticket items.  However, according to the Supreme Court, I have a right to sell items that I buy.  Also, it is against California's Constitutional Rights to interfere with a Citizens' business. But generally, I only have one item of whatever I am selling. If you are selling dozens of high-ticket items of the same shoes or handbags, clothing, electronics, etc., with a wide variety then you need to have purchased them from a brand name supplier and have receipts. Those type of items do not show up by the dozens at any thrift shop or garage sales.  That is the difference between a seller selling fakes and seller selling items discarded by stores or buyers who outgrew them. If you do have all your paperwork, showing you purchased from a known supplier, then find an attorney and file a counter lawsuit for liable defamation, civil rights, and for financial harm. The attorney will include the venue as one of the defendants that has caused you harm.  

by: my2cents

THANK YOU INA for bringing this to our attention.  This hardly even sounds legal when a seller isn't given proper notice so they can defend themselves.  

I do hope as @AB states the Marketplaces with throw their collective weight around to stop this practice sooner rather than later.

by: Montage Decor

I’ve certainly had experience with this on several occasions, once when I used the word “Tiffany” as color description I was notified in no uncertain terms not allowed, anywhere, by anyone but them.
Another was over a logo T shirt. Why when I purchased at a store, did that not give provenance to resell it?
A third time was when someone from famous attraction in France harassed me over description to sell a tray. I had one tray. It seemed they thought I could somehow mass produce them.
Recently I went to a well known local store looking for a purse. I found one I loved, rose gold leather, brand name, there was only one of them on display.
After speaking with salesperson at length about this Italian brand I wasn’t familiar with, I purchased it.
I used it twice, both times about 4 hrs each time. When I looked at it again, the color seemed to be disappearing in patches. While researching brand, I found out it has distinctive stitching, which this did not have. I immediately returned to store, receipt in hand. Less than 2 wks old. I was SO disappointed I loved it. The cashier called manager who tried to give me 3rd degree, was it only one there, on and on. I said it’s obviously fake. I’ll give you 5 minutes I’m calling Amex. It’s not even leather. This purse I have on my arm is leather I’ve had it 30 yrs still looks great. She refunded me. I’ve shopped in this store many years now don’t want to go in there again. So now you can’t even trust things in person presented as authentic at B&M stores. So unfortunate people want to squash small sellers out, while many of these corps everywhere peddle their own inferior goods.  

by: GetAGrip

Some sellers just aren't smart enough to take a hint. They are forewarned about the item and think no one will find out and continue to sell said item. Then they wonder why they are in court.

by: Rexford

A true story of David and Goliath.  What a bunch of bullies.  Bullies driven by greed.  If the items are authentic no one is breaking the law.

Perhaps all those ambulance chasing attorneys that I see during the mornings while I am watching the news have a new sales channel--countersuing these companies for damages.  Step up attorneys.  The little guy needs you.

by: LJW

I have a plan. Buy a bunch of merch direct from the brand and then let them claim it's counterfeit! That's be hard to explain to a judge. :)

by: I_Fix_Dolls

Last week I bought a used but still in great condition belt from a thrift store. It is black braided leather with a solid brass buckle. I am afraid to even list it, as it is stamped "Coach" on the back. It is my size, so I could keep it, but I have 4 Italian leather belts I already love. I would hate to be sued for a minor thing I am pretty sure is authentic, and which is not as expensive as a purse or wallet. Etsy & Ebay have gone nuts on their own sellers, not in a good way. I feel like I would be gambling with my own source of income, to take a chance on selling it.

by: GetAGrip

Being pretty sure something authentic doesn't hold any water when you are taken to court especially if the manufacturer says different. Keep the belt and enjoy it or donate it back to goodwill. Its not worth taking a chance on it.

by: pace306

There are a few things going on here .. and the topic needs to get broken down to get the full picture.

1) Brands are tired of dealing with fakes - buyers obtain them - from eBay, FB marketplace, Mercari or where ever and when an issue arises, buyers get angry when brands tell them "you bought a fake". The buyers then go back to the marketplace - who %99 of the time is unhelpful and refuses to deal with the issue at all. Customers then take out their anger on the brand and/or the marketplace and maybe stop payment on their cc which causes issues. Being there's no "chain of custody", and the brand or platform cant reach out to a seller 20,30, 50 days later and and accuse them - they will simply say "mine was real and the buyer switched it out for a fake". Then someone (alot of times the platform) has to each the chargeback. Being its eBay - we all know that they wont take even a $1 loss - certainly not for a seller)

2) The brands are using the trick that movie studios use when identifying pirates. They sue "John Doe's" en mass to save themselves time and money unmasking individual pirates. The fault here lies with the courts who allow this all to happen - its a cheaters way of doing things. For pirates - they deserve it (they probably DIDNT use a VPN lol) and they are doing something illegal and on purpose, but here alot of sellers are NOT doing anything "on purpose".

3) You wont see eBay etc running to help sellers - they HATE sellers. Any part a seller can do, they would LOVE to replace with their own ideas - in order to make more money (kicking sellers out of Refurb items, blocking brands via VERO etc). VERO is/has never been helpful, they never listen - they will GLADLY turn over anyone (seller) to appease "the brands" (cause maybe the brand will sell on eBay and give them back end money)!

4) Small sellers who buy stock from Goodwill/flea markets vs sellers (like myself) who buy closeouts (Amazons stock or "other") are very different. To eBay those are both the same and eBay treats them the same - when they are not. In my case - I have invoices FOR EVERY ITEM (especially for "the brands") because I run "a legit" business. I have nothing to hide, no game to play - I'm just cheaper then most other sellers (at least cheaper then what it is on Amazon) and I dont have to do MAP/MSRP. DOes it anger a brand that I dont do MAP? maybe, but that's life - I am protected by the Lanham Act AND The First Sale Doctrine.

eBay and large brands hate those laws (along with Kirstang) because they want to contro it all - and they cant. So what they do is dump on sellers, lieing about Copyright or Trademark issues and hope that the small seller wont spend money going to court to protect themselves - since its generally not worth it all.

Personally, Ive had VERO come at me - and the maker had to admit that they "never bought an item from me to determine real or fake, we just dont recognize you as a seller "so therefore what you sell MUST be fake" ... Well fine - but thats not how the law works.

eBay/VERO suck - they are the WORST kind of people, since they know better but pretend they "know nothing" ....... Worse - they allow copies and reproductions online and never remove any of them, (pot calling the kettle black).

*I* dont welcome being sued - but I am prepared - Ive got paperwork to back up my positions and I will GLADLY sue anyone who falsely accuses me or my company or my family of a crime we didnt commit.

Yes I know that doesnt help others and Im NOT minimizing that at all - but no flea market or garage sale gives out receipts and if they do (ala Goodwill) it doesnt "prove anything" (whether the item is real or not).

Step 1 should have been done by eBay all along - use those few thousand do nothing employees to clean up eBay. Remove all listings that say "reproduction" to start with, remove all video game multi-game systems that are made in China (real copyright fakes/copies) and take it from there.

Of course a picture in a listing means nothing - since there's no way to know if the item being sold is actually the item in the picture!

This whole thing is a mess and there need to be better rules in place - to protect sellers when they are innocent, and to punish liars/criminals who do bad things.... but dont count on eBay to help.

by: toastedmutt

Ditto what AB stated.

How very sad in this day of recycling and reusing that people who legally purchased merchandise from thrift stores, brick & mortar stores and garage sales actually don't own it, can't sell it to another re-user and will suffer draconian penalties if some snooty brand hires immoral lawyers to bankrupt them.

I refuse to buy overpriced snooty brands as does my extended family and every other person I know. Let the Paris Hilton's of the world think they are better than everybody else by wearing the schmutz.  

by: Whatever

Here's my take - I am in an industry that was made in the USA for 100 years. I remember the first manufacturer in 1990 who dumped America for China. I personally was shocked. I asked this 2nd generation manufacturer what was going to happen to all his employees. He didn't care. He was consumed with how much money he was going to make. I continued to do business with the other usa business's. One by  one they all left. It's called greed. Now the biggest brands are all made in China. The Chinese have no soul their also about the money. They will and have knocked off every brand name on the planet - even placing the original brand on the product.
A legitimate fashion contract china to run say 5,000 items and china runs 10,000 and then sells that item on the open market. It used to be called falling off the truck.
So how is the unsuspecting seller who grabs a score at fault? Put the blame on the brands. Their already billionaires. Greed is ramped in almost all products now. Hire Americans - let's bring our jobs back. Until Americans wake up nothing will change. China sells $ 500 billion something to the USA. USA sells about  $150 billion something back to China.  Wake up America. Start reading labels. Quit buying from China - we've made many many billionaires over there.
Additionally if a seller is taken to court and proves to be selling an authentic item can they in turn sue the complainant for damages? It will be very interesting to see how this situation plays out. Ebay should also bear some responsibility for this mess - it can't always be take take take on their part as well - their not bullet proff

by: Allen1853

I read Ina's post and the article it links to. NOwhere are these vultures filing SAD lawsuits identified. Please help us out so we can avoid these bullies completely. Are we afraid they will come after us for exposing THEM? Is it Tiffany? Cartier? Chanel? If eBay contacts me or takes down a listing (in tens of thousands of sales I have had Vero issues I think twice, only one I remember) I just move on. I do NOT relist. But if some Federal Judge in Northern Illinois (getting kick backs from the filers?) shuts me down with no notice what am I to do? FYI, many of these SAD claims are frauds in themselves. My one Vero takedown was three Chanel spare buttons from a woman with a closet full of Chanels she purchased in Paris. She was NOT a Canal Street shopper. I made no attempt to challenge the claim of the Chanel parent corp. Why bother? But I bet the poor woman was roling over in her grave to think Chanel was selling counterfeits out of their own Paris atelier. Shame on you Chanel, shame.  

by: iheartjacksparrow

"When sellers in these cases are finally notified they've been sued, the judge has already granted an injunction and ordered the marketplace to freeze their accounts and the sellers' funds."

That doesn't make any sense to me. I was a paralegal for almost 40 years and handled a lot of civil litigation. Unless the rules have drastically changed, if someone is sued in a Court of Law, they have to be served with a Summons and Complaint, and proof of service has to be filed with the Court. Unless these companies are falsifying documents, the defendant has 30 days to respond to the Complaint, and default judgment cannot be entered without proof of service.

by: AnotherTime

honestly just speechless...but not surprised.  I have quietly thought for many years that if I were a big corp with a name product, I'd want to remove all the resellers I could because they interfere with my chain of sale.  Sadly this looks like it is happening with a vengeance.  
Wondering what laws are on the books for post first sale rights?  Once a company sells and item and it becomes used merchandise, does it still have the same standing?  If such - pretty much nothing could be resold!  Yikes - build more landfills!!

by: GetAGrip

I don't care if its Chinese, Japanese or American made. Anyone who thinks its about the brand and not the money is living in a fantasy world. ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY..................

by: Disgruntled_Seller

What iheartjacksparow said

and

One who throughs caution to the wind would be very wise to consider that even though it may right or wrong, and that one can be sued and sue, you certainly can get all the justice that is affordable to you right up to the point where it bankrupts you doing it.  

by: ScottLBrown

Upset on so many levels there isn't enough room to discuss.
The Legal system can't just be for those with resources.  
The Legal system can't use email as sole notification, or in my opinion, at all.
How in the world is it even possible where the list of "defendants" can be hidden from the defendants themselves..... and held until it's too late?   Is this the new America?

If they want to use "Rights" as an excuse the burden should be on the manufacturer to prove the items being sold are "fake goods" by shopping them out and submitting the evidence.    Reporting should be allowed simply because the seller is not on their "Authorized" seller list.   So many items are used, or close-outs, overstock. Trailer Tuesdays, grey-market goods.    

I believe in EU, no matter who sells the product, the manufacturer has to honor the warranty - - remind me if I'm wrong.  Meaning the government does not care who sells the item.   The same should hold true here.   It should be on the Manufacturer to POLICE their resellers, distributors etc and terminate contracts rather than bother with this recourse.

Lastly, a few years ago Amazon was notorious for shutting down entire accounts for a single violation.  I was one of those sellers who screamed bloody murder at the time.   In the end I believe it was Elizabeth Warren that helped get only the affected item removed until the seller could prove innocence.    Therefore, the same here, a single item could be removed from sale, frozen, as well as any monies from the sale of this item, until a court can make a conclusion.

I make sure now to get a Letter of Authorization that clearly states that I'm allowed to sell their products on marketplaces and make them specify which marketplaces.   This letter needs to be from a national officer, not some local sales person or distributor.  

Best practice is to get your ducks in a row prior to having any of this thrown at you..

by: Jewels888

The items I sell are antique books, engravings, & photos with autographs.  I spend 50% of my time researching & confirming the item I am selling is authentic.  If I can't confirm the authenticity then I set it aside until I can.  I think more Ebay sellers should take responsibility for the product they sell.  It's the business they chose.  And  that business is more than grabbing something at Goodwill & slapping it up on Ebay without checking to find out if it's real or not.